Jolene Park – Gray Area Drinking And Your Brain

Jolene Park is a functional nutritionist specializing in Gray Area Drinking.

Almost 5 years alcohol-free, Jolene has studied the functional impact of food, emotions, environments, and movement in relationship to our physical bodies coining the term Gray Area Drinking in her TEDx Talk that you can watch here.

She founded Healthy Discoveries┬«  in 2001 and created Craving Brain coaching for individuals, the Nourish Online Membership Community for Former Gray Area Drinkers and a training program for coaches and healthcare practitioners who would like to specialize in their Recovery Coaching.

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With me today is Jolene Park. You can find her on YouTube and view her TEDx talk about the gray area drinkers. Jolene, how are you? I’m great. I’m great. I’m honored to be here with you. Thanks for asking me on. Yeah, definitely. And I believe I checked yesterday, you’re up to 107,000 views on that Ted Talk. It’s crazy. It’s crazy, but it’s exciting.
I think some people could probably guess what a gray area drinker is, but why don’t you give us sort of a background of what a gray area drinker is and how it applied to your life? Yeah, you know, I mean, I certainly fell into this I never would have imagined 10-20 years ago that here I would be
doing this work and talking about this. , I was not a drinker early on in my life, ironically. And now. This has been
Become my work and you know, drinking came into my life in my late 20s. So, I had a little bit of a different story than some but I certainly heard the story of with many as well, but in growing up in high school and college, I just wasn’t a tip. You know, typically a lot of a lot of us have kind of that party background college and that kind of thing. And I didn’t I you know, alcohol, it just kind of wasn’t a thing for me one way or the other.
And you still went through the early part of my life, not drinking, but then in my late 20s, I went through a breakup, which I was just devastated about, and, and remember very clearly, you know, sitting down I’d had wine at home like I’d gotten it at a work conference one time and I was just kind of using it as a decorative thing, you know, on my calendar in my kitchen for months. And I just, I was like, screw it. I’m just going to sit down and open the follow. I was really calm.
Like, I’m in pain, I’m in grief, I’m going to open the bottle of wine. And I did. And there was something very different kind of in that moment like it, you know, I had a glass and I was like, Ooh, this just kind of, like stopped that ruminating mind, you know that the pain that has been in my mind and it just calmed it down. Like why have I not done this before? I had certainly drank before over the years, but it just didn’t kind of click one way or the other, I could take it or leave it. But in that moment, when I was in that heightened kind of grief and pain, something different clicked for me, and, and that’s where it began. And my late 20s I actually started then my own entrepreneurial business, my consulting company, when I was 31. And so it all correlated really, really quickly. And I just, you know, and I drank through my 30s and I was in the the entrepreneurial world I was in the business world. My friend group you know, it was that the kind of the single
Goal 30s we had disposable income we were out frequently like let’s try this new restaurant kind of the foodie scene, which was always very much mixed with alcohol.
And that was how I started drinking. And but it was very connected from the very beginning of I just want to shut my mind off with whatever it was with a relationship I was stressed about with running my business that I was stressed about worried about money. And it was like, I’m you know, I got this sophisticated bottle of wine it going to have a glass, I’m just going to have a glass and as soon as I would have that first glass and be like, oh, screw it, whether I poured it or I ordered it, I’ll have another and I’ll have another and how then easy it was to just finish that bottle. And as the years went on on a more you know, it first was just kind of the weekend like, okay, it’s the weekend I’m going to drink a bottle of wine. And then you know, as it went on, it was very easy most days to be doing that.
And so you know what it was, for me kind of back to this whole gray area. When I stopped drinking, I didn’t go to treatment, I was able to, I had the capacity and ability to say, I’m not going to drink and I didn’t drink and I stopped. But I also wasn’t, you know, having a glass of champagne on New Year’s Eve, and then not thinking about it or not drinking again for weeks or months. So there’s kind of those two extremes of,
you know, not really drinking, it’s just not kind of a thing in your life like it was for me in the early years. It truly wasn’t. And then more of that other extreme where we stereotypically kind of put it like Well, I’m not that bad in that bar moves all the time, no pun intended, of what that is, and I wasn’t kind of an either one of those categories. But what I was was in the middle of those categories, which then I started talking about is it’s the gray area. And it was also you know, so many women around me it was when I was going to book clubs, the girls night out that kind of the
suburbia neighborhood, let the mommy juice culture of let’s have some wine.
We’re not, you know, where people are like, well, you’re not an alcoholic. This is how everybody drinks. But the way we were drinking was very, very problematic. The way I was drinking was very problematic and that’s the gray area.
in your life, no one was really like hounding you, Jolene, you need to cut back Jolene, every time you drink. Everything gets ruined, everybody’s life is worse because of your drinking. You were just kind of in this area where, you know, inside at least what you’re doing is not the way that it’s supposed to be but you weren’t necessarily getting the outside.
I guess consequences and the outside reinforcement like for me, my parents, they would say hey, we know you’ve been drinking which didn’t even make sense because I wasn’t drinking in front of them.
But they would say, you know, maybe you should maybe you should lay off at a bit and my friends and my roommates is okay, Andrew, you’re gonna be drinking tonight, but why don’t you just cut yourself off at like nine. And that never, it never panned out, but I was hearing from other people, you need to tone it down, you need to tone it down. But that wasn’t your experience, your experience was keep doing what you’re doing. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And I was never kind of known as like the party girl who, you know, the group that I hung out with, I actually, you know, people drank much bigger amounts, then than I did. So I fit in very well. You know, I didn’t stand out as like, oh, Jillian, you know, she gets a little out of control. You know, it wasn’t like my behavior change. I wasn’t an angry drunk or, or that kind of thing. You know, the one kind of, kind of external thing that I
I knew deep in my gut that I was on borrowed time, is I would drive a lot. So I, you know, I live in Denver, Colorado, and it was pre Uber, because I’m coming up on five years of not drinking. So Uber and Lyft kind of got their popularity around the time when I stopped drinking. Yes. And you know, and it wasn’t like I was blackout driving, you know, it was that thing of everyone. Everybody know, yes, this, like, I’m okay. But if I ever got stopped, or if something ever happened, how my life would have just completely shifted in the snap of the fingers. And that that worried me and I always knew in the back of my mind, you know how I was. So that was kind of the negative thing that didn’t happen, but there was no reason it couldn’t have happened. But no, you know, beyond that, there was nothing that kind of stood out but the way I was drinking was problematic, you know, finishing a bottle of wine
very frequently, very easily.
At the end pretty much most nights, there’s nothing about that’s normal. There’s something about that’s healthy or within range of, you know, good although there’s many people who are like, well that’s not a problem like I’m just getting started with a bottle. I just I just like to have a bottle of wine with dinner you know, for the for the antioxidant sir, right? My excuse I was working my way up the Corollas ladder. And I was in charge of training the new employees on the wines that we had. So when I would go to the liquor store and drink wine, I would buy the wines that Corollas had, and I would just be taking it to the face, drinking it in the name of research and being good at my job. That was my excuse was, well this is for work. That’s why I need to drink this bottle. I get it and I’m, you know, I’m a functional nutritionist. I certified in nutrition in 1999. And you know, a lot of my ongoing training, you know,
Lot of continuing education training these weekend conferences these functional medicine conferences and early on you know it’s just like 2002 2004 there was a lot of talk you know we’re going through all the time up fish oil and omega three fats and you know improving your gut health and that kind of thing and we’ve talked about like you said reserve a tall and the antioxidant effects and certainly you know, red wine it would come up of you know, a glass of red wine can have those nutritional the reserve call but you know, as can grapes, white grape, grape juice and all that, but and then we go out and have these kind of decadent dinners of like, okay, we just talked about all the benefits of amino acids and let’s have a good steak and some vegetables and a glass of red wine. So it was even, you know, in that industry held up and revered, but you know, a glass However, at that dinner table, we’re also ordering bottles and bottles and bottles of red wine which from
Me also kind of made it acceptable.
That’s, you know, part of my training. But there’s that slippery line then of you know, a glass to a bottle or more. Mm hmm. So when you get sober at the end of 2014 was there any sort of moment where it was like this is the end? Or were you just kind of
time to get sober I suppose What’s going on? early December 2014. , I was I was sick and tired of living the same Groundhog Day over and over and over. So for years, you know, really kind of through my, that decade of drinking, you know, I was through my 30s
I stopped a lot, you know, I would get in these cycles where I would drink and it would kind of it would escalate, the more I drank, the more it escalated, and then I kind of hit this period of like, all right, this is I just gotta like, stop and kind of clean this up.
And I go back to the, you know, the nutrition side, which I could hide behind a little bit like, I’m going to do a paleo challenge, which meant I’m not drinking for 30 days
what was really happening, but and so I would do that many times I did a yoga training and and I didn’t drink for 18 months, and it was a yoga practice that, you know, they were pretty vocal about bringing the alcohol brings down your vibration and part of you know, doing this yoga just with your alcohol is really not part of it and I was like, okay, you know, again, I had that capacity to stop. But then I would be like, what am I doing? Like, I can be a social drinker, like it’s not I want to be able to have a glass of wine. And so I would go back and I did that many many times over the years back and forth and back and forth. And it’s exhausting and the misery of going back into you know, having this period of not drinking and it’s things are just better across the board and then I would start drinking and kind of fall back in that pit again.
Everything was starts with you know, just
How I felt physically and emotionally I just was not kind of that effective person that I wanted to be I function I, you know, again, it was it was all everything was going okay. But yet internally it was much more sub optimal and so I just got so sick of that back and forth and there was this period in December 2014 another relationship because it’s very tied for me with relationships that that initial pain in my late 20s
and I would actually find I would drink more when I get into relationships almost as kind of like, I was buffering my like, when’s the shoe gonna drop and kind of that numbing protection? I would, and I would date guys who were big drinkers also and, and so I didn’t stand out as being a big drinker. So and 2014 I had just gotten out of another relationship that we were both drinking heavily. And there was it was just like, I what I want and I and I would hang out girlfriends like there’s just no one
Men like, you know, I want this relationship. And you know this, they’re drinking and then it was like, I, I’m pointing one finger out, there’s three fingers pointing back at me. And if I if this is what I really wanted, and it’s like, here’s this pattern that has been running for so many years, I just can’t keep doing this with relationships with the way I was drinking and, and I didn’t plan to quit. It wasn’t like this is going to be my last, you know, drinking day. But it was after kind of a week of just drinking every day, got to that Sunday after drinking on Saturday and was just just felt so sick. And I was just like, I’m just done and there was just something like deep in my bones that just knew and I went through scenarios. I remember very clearly I opened my TEDx talk talking about this, that I was driving down the highway, hung over this time, not drunk, but it was you know, Monday, Tuesday after that.
Saturday, my last drinking drinking day and I was just mentally going through these scenarios of like, is this really is like I was kind of in this competition back and forth and I was like but what if in the future I mean you know this this guy wasn’t dating anybody but some guy in the future and we go to Italy on this romantic call it Am I really not going to drink and I was asking myself this question I was like, No, no this you’re done done this I’m done. And then it was like What if something really awful happens like you know the the phone call comes at two in the morning? It’s just devastating. And and the whatever that is like, you know, a death of somebody really close to me Am I really then going to go through those days like it’s going to be so hard and painful and not just kind of numb no alcohol? And I’m like, No, I’m and so I had because I’d stopped and started so many times. I knew you know, I’ve been through hard things. I’ve been through holidays. I’ve been through it and I really just had to come to Jesus, you know, talk with myself this is this really at and I was like this is really it and I was very resonated.
I didn’t know what would happen in the future good or bad. But I knew that alcohol was not going to be an option. And this December will be my five year anniversary. I have not had a drink since that day. That’s incredible. And I know for myself, my wife and I, I’d say I have a couple of, of the
some of the top times that someone should drink that I didn’t and just for people that are kind of like on the fence like Kanye, Kanye. We got engaged on St. Patrick’s Day in Dublin. Wow, didn’t drink. We went on our honeymoon in Italy. Two weeks didn’t drink. I was at the table with a seven figure negotiation. Everybody else was drinking. I didn’t drink. So there’s that you can come up with any excuse, but I can tell you in all of those situations. It wasn’t something
And I mean, I had been sober several years at the time when these events happen. So it’s not like, well, I got sober March 23. And then I was faced with all these temptations on the 27th. But these things, you know, you start to build up that foundation and you start to take it in internally, that I am a sober person and a sober person does not drink on these occasions. And I mean for you now, I’m sure you probably embody it more than ever with your TED talk and with the programs that you’re putting out where that is your identity. It’s not just I’m trying this 30 day paleo. It is I’m Jolene park a person that doesn’t drink period. Here Here are the things that solidify that in my subconscious which probably makes it easier for you to stop because it is part of who you are. And for myself all
With you know, this podcast, it makes it a lot more difficult for me to go out and drink when it’s like, aren’t you the guy that has the podcast about sobriety, and I know some of the other big podcasts and I’ve had guests on the show. I know Shane Ramer, that sober guy that was part of his motivation, I believe Paul Churchill, with recovery elevator, I think that was his motivation as well. They were early in sobriety and like, Hey, here’s an extra layer of accountability. So moving forward them, how did you get into the speaking scene? And how did the TED Talk kind of unveil what were the steps that you took to make that happen?
What so my background is in public speaking, I was working in have been working in corporate wellness since 2004. And actually, my degree from college is speech communication. So emphasizing public speaking, corporate training, group facilitation. It’s always been my love and it’s always been the work of
You know, that I’ve done I never would have imagined that I would do a TED talk on alcohol and drinking, particularly my drinking story. And, you know, I’ve always known about TED Talks. But so that’s kind of that thing of, you know, life takes you in strange directions. But, but I do feel like the, you know, the 15 minutes on that Ted stage was kind of the all the work that I’ve been doing. led me led me to that with my with my public speaking. So, so how it, you know, came about was I didn’t start talking about not drinking until about a year, year and a half into not drinking, of course, personally, you know, friends and family knew because they just I was the red wine drinker. And now all of a sudden, like, we’re out to dinner and they’re like, chilling, why are you not having a glass of red wine so they obviously knew immediately, but professionally, I just kept doing what I was doing. I was I was doing health coaching and teaching ironically well, wellness classes, but I also wasn’t
was at that time teaching about brain chemistry, talking a lot about sugar and the different neurotransmitters Gabba serotonin, dopamine, I learned all about that in my functional nutrition training in 2000 2006 was when it was when I did that training. And so I incorporated that with my work. But it wasn’t until I quit drinking kind of a year, you know, a year and a half into being alcohol free. That then I started being kind of public about, Okay, look, this is my story.
And I quit drinking and I was listening to the motivation to start talking was I was listening to podcast, some alcohol free podcasts where people are talking about it. And I was listening. I’m like, I just feel like something’s being missed here. And what’s being missed is the physiology. And, you know, it’s still, like people like Holly Whitaker and Laura McCowan, they were doing great things and really kind of blowing the doors off the stigma of you know, not drinking and not
Like Holly doesn’t go to aa. And so there was like this whole kind of fall, who was resonating with that. But I was like, there’s this piece of neurotransmitters and blood sugar. And what I had always known and studied, and which really, you know, helped me and what I stuck to early on in not drinking was going back to the physiology for myself. And I just like, I just feel like people need to know that. So I wrote to Holly and Laura who do the home podcasts, and I said, look, I think there’s something, you know, missing piece, and I just thought that email would, you know, get lost in a sea of other emails? And they replied, and they said, Come on our show, we’d love to have you talk about this. And so that’s then what opened up, you know, I told my story and connected it with a lot of the nutrition, the physiology, the nervous system regulation. And, you know, then I start started to kind of get known for that. And then a year later, I applied to do the TED talk on neuro transmitters and physiology. So it was a bit of kind of a, you know, there was there was some steps in there, but the more
I start talking about I realized how much people were like this is, you know, really fascinating and this is me and I want to hear more about this this brain chemistry piece.
And you talked a bit about it on the TED talk but do you want to kind of go over the Gabba and Sarah tone and how that all plays into while you’re drinking? Yeah, so you know I I’m a big I sit very much in the physiology camp so as a nutritionist, my training my background, what’s so interesting to me and when where I’m when I, you know, look at the neuroscience of it is, is we talked about it starts with the body, and then it’s the brain is the second and traditionally, you know, we try to like cognitively and my clients will tell me this, they’re like, I know this stuff. I listened to it. I read it like I know it. Why do I keep drinking and the data is there is that we have to body first brain second.
So when the body feels calm when the body’s resource when the body is in homeostasis, then it gets the message to the brain okay? We don’t need to fight we don’t need to flee, we don’t need to go into freeze mode and the brain can calm down. So working with the body and some of those just foundational pieces is working with the neural chemicals in the body, not the cognitive piece, because we’re working with an animal brain and so when animals are, you know, freaked out or scared, like if there’s a dog that’s lost its owner, it’s running across, you know, traffic, that dog doesn’t understand language, but what under its body understands sensation and and calming that dog’s body and we’re the same way we have this animal body. And when we are stressed in this like triggered, activated fight , freeze state, which is usually you know, when we want to drink we want to like, try to regulate that for me to say, well just calm down and don’t drink that
doesn’t register. But what registers is doing something to regulate the body and momentarily a drink, you know, glass of alcohol feels like we’re regulating the body. It’s a physical thing, the liquid of alcohol going into our physical body, we get that regulation. And so we need to then start there with how can we regulate the body physically because we’re doing it with alcohol. How can we do it physically, but with something besides alcohol, and so I’m particularly looking at nutrients and foods and movements and lifestyle practices to go right into the root very quickly. And that route being our Gabba neurotransmitter which is responsible for anxiety, if it’s too low, we feel more anxious A lot of people say they drink because they feel anxious. The serotonin neurotransmitter is can be connected with depression. And then dopamine is connected with connection we want to connect with others. So you know, people will say I drink because I want to really
lacks or I want to connect. And so it’s often those neurotransmitters are literally low, we can test them and they’re low and we’re trying to regulate we’re trying to medicate and boost them up with alcohol. So now when we understand the physiology of what else can regulate and boost our internal pharmacy, have that anti anxiety kind of anti depressant, that connection hormone that dopamine is also about our motivation and our drive. When we learn how to regulate that it’s, first of all, it’s fun to know about it can be inspiring, it’s a different shift. It’s a different refrain from something’s wrong with me and I you know, just personality wise have a moral defect. Because our physiology regulates our psychology. It’s like when we have the flu and we don’t feel well physically we don’t feel well, emotionally or mentally. So going in and working with the physiology is where I start and
It’s what has really helped me and what has helped my clients.
What would be kind of the ideal diet for somebody, I’m sure a lot of it plays into the diet that you have. So if you take in a ton of sugar, I’m assuming that that’s not good for you. What would if someone were to stick to a regiment have a perfect intake in their body? What would that look like supplements diet, I know it’ll fluctuate person to person, but in a ballpark. If you could kind of give someone the shortcut of if you do this, you’ll be okay. Well, taking alcohol is the first step.
And I knew that you know, this was another part of that 2014 kind of moment of knowing is I knew this this physiology work and it was kind of like I can’t keep not knowing what I know and ignoring this like it was too misaligned. I knew about the physiology. I knew what
havoc alcohol played on hormones on brain chemicals. So alcohol is just the dirty drug. I mean, it just it just sweeps Gabba, dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine, your oxytocin, your cortisol, it just does a sweep on all of them and lowers everything and just regulates everything. So taking alcohol out biochemically physiology wise is is the best thing you can do.
And so, you know, whatever the whatever the struggle is, whether it’s sleep or your mood or your weight, or you know, anything, alcohol disrupts all of that. So, so taking that out of the picture is is huge. And then, and then going back to just kind of you know, diet and nutrition, our body needs protein, carbohydrates and fat. And we want the secret sauce like we want to be like what’s, what’s the rock, we haven’t turned over? It, it’s going back to the basics. That makes the biggest difference. So eating protein and the reason why people
Protein is so important is because any protein that you eat, whether it’s animal based or vegetable based will break down into amino acids. And amino acids are the raw materials that make Gabba dopamine and serotonin. So eating protein every time you eat, it’s not just like oh, I say it and it’s a healthy thing to say. And it really like that’s what’s fascinating about physiology like how it starts to connect and when the rubber really meets the road. So protein is key. You know, if you’re just stopping drinking, if you’re have stopped, but you’re just like, my mood, my sleep, go back to protein every time you eat and eat three times a day, like it’s simple, but a lot of people just don’t do it. But it makes a really, really big difference and not just like, subjectively, like I’m just talking about this. You can see it on blood labs. So when you eat three times a day and eat some protein in those three meals, blood lab starts to shift like blood glucose starts to regulate triglycerides Can you know regulate
A little bit more the cortisol, the DHG, a stress hormone. So if we can measure it and it’s simple, eat regularly eat some protein. And then the next nutrition thing is the good healthy fats, particularly omega three fats because those omega three fats also feed your brain. The GABA, the serotonin, the dopamine so omega three fats are fish oil, flax seeds, chia seeds, but also the other good fats, coconut oil, real butter, olive oil, avocado, that kind of thing. And then that we need carbohydrates for energy for again for our brain, to be able to process information to not you know, low blood sugar, high blood sugar, we want to keep the brain blood sugar level, and vegetables are the ideal carbohydrates and then fruit.
Depending on you know, the person’s goal, what their symptoms are, what they’re trying to achieve. Some people can tolerate more starchy, grainy, flowery carbohydrates, but you know, the real whole grains are key ma brown rice
steel cut oats, amaranth, whole grains are always just whole wheat, whole wheat is a whole grain but getting the other whole grains in. And then the third category of carbohydrates is alcohol and soda and brownies and candy bars and cookies and so when people say to me, you know I’m not eating carbs, does that mean you’re not eating cookies or you’re not eating broccoli? So ideally, it’s just going back to the basics getting in good protein, whatever protein you like getting in good healthy fats and adding in fruits and vegetables. So for me, it’s about adding in instead of taking away because normally when we talk nutrition people like Oh, geez, you know what I have to not eat take away, deprive myself up and it’s actually just, we need to focus I think more on adding in the actual food because that’s what we’re missing.
And do you think there’s any good strategies for going about that like for myself, I know if I pre planned my mail
And meal prep, then it’s a lot more difficult for me to stray when I guess it’s that animal brain that you’re talking about, where I just walked downstairs and there’s the trigger of I am hungry at this moment, open the refrigerator. What is inside of the refrigerator? Here? Is food. Be a good or bad I am looking for food. I haven’t made a conscious decision. My animal brain. I know in the moment, I shouldn’t choose a brownie. But at the same time, it’s like well, I don’t face an immediate consequence with it. So just one won’t hurt. And I think we can kind of tie that into the alcoholic brain as well. You know, like you said, you didn’t get a DUI you didn’t injure somebody as a result of drinking and driving. And that was my experience as well. Well actually, I take that back I I hit some cars and got a DUI so not the same but 99% of the
Time it worked out. It worked out fine. And there wasn’t anything negative that happened as a direct result. But are there any strategies for not? Or strategies for stopping yourself or keeping on track? Yeah, I mean, you know, this could be a three hour workshop, because so you know what I just talked about protein, carbohydrates, fat. And if it were as simple as that the conversation will be over. But it’s not that simple. And there’s a lot of layers to this, and there’s a long conversation and to what you’re bringing up. So sugar and alcohol run the same pathway in the brain. They’re very similar. We switch so often, and this was me, I was, you know, my issue early on. I wasn’t a drinker. But sugar was an issue for me in my teens and my 20s. And then I discovered alcohol. I’m like, What am I doing? Like, I’ll call it just just a quick route. its immediate, like, why am I wasting time eating sugar, but then often, people will quit alcohol, go back to sugar. And you said, You know, I know it.
Need a brownie? This is like when people said they’re like, I know this stuff. I know this about alcohol, but why can I stop? So again, it’s not about intellectually knowing things. It’s about working with our physiology. So quick and simple. I mean, like you said, I think there is something if you just don’t have it in your environment. That’s that could be one just quick kind of kind of hack to not have things in your cupboards and that kind of thing, but it’s also not about deprivation. So it’s not also that you know, this thing of like you all this stuff you can’t have. So then it’s, it’s going to, you know, looking at kind of the deeper layers and you know, you know, one brownie here and there is going to kill you. No, absolutely not. So, what’s the goal like, like, what is it that you’re trying to go after and food can get really tangled with this kind of? This is bad food. We have so much so much. I mean, if we have the judgment on alcohol, that alcohol is bad, the way we have the judgment on a brownie is bad. I mean, people do
There’s just a thing of like these bad foods. And then there’s this equals, if we put that bad food and however we define about food in our body, now we’re bad. And that’s where it gets tangled and really messy. And it’s just, it’s just not true. I mean, you know, one Brown is going to knock you off your diet. Not No, not at all. But going back to first of all, what’s your WHY? And then and then, you know, there’s just a lot of, of layers under this like, what are we really hungry for what’s the void that we’re really trying to fill?
And and it could it be that we’re just, you know, lack of connection, or we’re needing more space and solitude, more creativity, and that’s what a lot of what I work with, with clients, getting to kind of that core void or core need, because we could drink all the alcohol and world or eat all the brownies in the world. And if that’s not what’s going to fill that void, but we need to get to, you know, uncover what are we really trying to feed
So understanding the root, it helps you to understand what the symptoms are. And there’s usually something deeper is kind of what we’re trying to medicate with all those, you know, the things that we’re putting in our body or the decisions that we’re making a lot of it, I believe it’s a Tony Robbins, it’s, we know what to do, we don’t do what we know. And that’s where someone like yourself as a coach, helps put people give them the accountability and the guidance, but it’s not always just the intellectual A lot of it. There’s the fear base also and entrepreneurs, people trying to start their own business. And I know that I need to do this, this, this and this, it’s like, okay, just go do that. It’s like, well, what if I fail, you already know what to do, just go do it and my company, we’re going through some gigantic acquisition and this and that and you know, we’re talking about big scary numbers.
On a, just on an animal level, my reaction, they say a number and I say, Oh, that’s, that’s way too much. And then you break it down. It’s like, well, that’s like, three days of sales like is that is that really so much? Or is it just your instinct and if you can get through on the cognitive level of, if I can tell myself that this isn’t scary because of these facts, it can kind of help how you feel with any sort of situation that you’re trying to overcome. But we had talked briefly before the show, do you want to talk about sober choice and at the time of this release, it’ll be pretty brand new, but would you like to give give people a couple details on what it is and what you’re looking to accomplish with it and how they can get involved? Absolutely. I just released a new online program called the sober choice and it takes people
Through the first 30 days, so you have me digitally. And you know, and I’ve recorded videos to really address kind of, you know, the concerns of I just stopped drinking but now I’m really craving sugar or carbohydrates and in an eight to 19 minute video, they’re really quick here’s that you know, go through look at this look at this, here’s a resource here’s an action step here’s your follow through and I just all the things of like, you know, I just don’t know how this whole forever question got a whole day on that sober sucks and hanging out with you know, my friends still drink but I’ve quit and you know, just kind of staying on track and all these things that come up and and delivering it which actually might the resources and the action steps are tie in with entrepreneurship, because, you know, keeping your blood sugar stable, working with building your resilience, that that ability to tolerate the discomfort you know,
That’s what’s in, in this program which you can apply. You know, when I say on day 30 of this program, all of this is, it’s not like you just did it on day 16 and then never look at it again. These are life techniques to help you maintain and sustain your sober choice. And so it’s just really I’m a real practical person, like, you know, when I’m in a class or not the teacher I’m like, just give me the house and tell me why it works. And so that’s how I’ve set this up. That’s and that’s how I teach it and it again, it correlates and you transfer it with kind of any life anxiety that might be going on. Whether it’s business or relationships when people talk about you know, I, this is my trigger to drink. This course is all of kind of the resources to get through those triggers.
That’s incredible. Well, Jolene, thank you so much for being on self made and sober podcast. And where can people find you to learn more about you? What are your social media
And we’ll have links in the show notes for all of these. So gray area drinkers calm is where all the coaching and programs I also train other coaches and healthcare practitioners how to work with gray area drinkers. So that’s all on that website. My Instagram is where I am mostly on social and it’s healthy, it’s healthy underscore Discovery’s because that’s the name of my original corporate wellness training company.
All right, perfect. We’ll have links for all that. And guys, if you enjoyed the show, comment on the Facebook page, review it on iTunes. let your friends know about everything that you’re going through. message me personally. messaged Jolene, get in touch with her. She’s a great resource. Be sure to check out her TED Talk, check out her programs and again, thank you so much for being on self made and sober. Thank you for having me.

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